For the 1990s camera, see Mamiya 6. The Mamiya Six is a series of 6×6 folders with a coupled rangefinder, made by Mamiya from 1940 to the 1950s. All of them are focused by moving the film plane. Some have Zuiko lenses.
I want to buy my first medium format camera. I have researched extensively but really need some specific input on my short listed options.
I want to shoot 6x6 - I'm just drawn to it. If I want a rectangle, I can just use my 35mm cameras. I've been shooting 35mm for about 6 months (DSLR before that). I am a hobbyist but a very passionate one.
I mostly shoot my active 2 year old but I am very aware that the types of MF systems I'm looking at will require a slower shooting style and I want to try it. I am limited by budget and the fact that I am small with pathetic girl arms so weight is a factor. I want to handhold - I'm not a tripod girl. So I have narrowed down my options to:. Bronica EC or Sq.
I'm drawn to the EC for some reason. My main concern here is weight and the noise of the shutter. Yashicamat or Rollei 3.5 TLR. I have the opportunity to purchase a Rollei 3.5 Tessar New Standard for US$250 which I think is quite tempting. I have had in my head forever that a Mamiya 6 would be my ideal camera (size, silence, aperture priority) but I've never used a rangefinder before. So another option is to get a cheap 35mm RF like a yashica electro to see if a RF suits me then save up for a Mamiya 6.
I live in NZ and there is nowhere to actually touch and feel these cameras to get a feel for them. Any input would be hugely appreciated!! Emily, I love TLR's. I've got a New Standard but I wouldn't recommend it for the things you want it for. These cameras date back to 1939 and unless its been fitted with a replacement fresnel focussing screen you would find the plain ground glass viewfinder very dim and tricky to compose and focus with. Also the price seems rather steep. Yashicamats have got better screens, the later ones probably the best, but they are prone to problems with the winding mechanism.
Minolta Autocords are lovely cameras with excellent screens, provided the focusing lever hasn't snapped off as happens sometimes when the focusing mechanism becomes stiff with age. Otherwise consider a later Rolleiflex or a late model Rolleicord, the 5A and 5B have reasonably bright screens and good light baffles inside the body to reduce flare and improve contrast. Some medium format SLR's are best used on a tripod because there's a degree of vibration when the mechanism goes off. I had a Bronica ETRS but was always happier with it on a tripod, or with studio flash.
I don't have much experience with MF rangefinders. That vibration thing again, so.;-)All cameras (no exceptions, under no circumstances) deliver better results when fixed on top of a steady tripod.But when using any camera handheld anyway (there are times we just can't use a tripod), there is no reason to worry about camera induced vibrations. Our hands, even the steadiest, shake much more.Re the choice between rangefinder, TLR and SLR, i'd say that unless there is a good reason not to, the thing to do is go for a SLR. You see through the taking lens (not so with rangefinder and TLR), and have a wide choice of lenses (limited with rangefinders, except for one model TLR, not available at all for TLRs) and other attachments that can be very useful.So unless you have good reason to limit your photographic possibilities, the SLR is the camera of choice.(And if anyone should doubt that - and i'm sure someone will - just have a look at the market, how few TLRS and rangefinders there are compared to SLRs. People generally agree, in great numbers.). Whilst to an extent, it relates to what sort of photography you want to do, and as you can already see, tlr, Rangefinders and slrs each have their adherents, it is pretty clear that a slr is the most flexible solution and will allow you to take a wider range of photographs competently than the others.
I used to travel with a slr system ( a Bronica as it happens) and a Mamiya 7. I got the Mamiya because there were times when it was the better solution than a slr. But mostly I used the Bronica and viewed the rangefinder for when I really did need a lighter, less obtrusive solution, or a 67 format rather than square. If I had had to make do with one of them, the slr was the one I viewed as the main camera, and I'd have waved goodbye to the rangefinder without a moments hesitation. All that said, if I wanted to take photographs of an active 2-y-o I'd use a dslr with image stabilisation every time, and against that all the others are a liability. The fact that you can see instantly what you've got, and whether you need to do it again is just such a huge advantage and the avoidance of any necessity to fiddle around with unsophisticated and probably handheld meters and fiddly manual focussing with small depth of field is just too tempting to choose anything else IMO.
There are things for which I'd see a medium format film camera as having advantages. Photographing young kids that won't/can't keep still isn't one of these. Emily - I think you have a tough choice, given your intended use, physical build, and the desire to not use a tripod. I owned several MF Bronica SLRs and 4-5 lenses for them. Really loved the cameras, but they were too big/heavy compared to the 35mm rangefinders I was used to. I found that the noticeably reduced DOF, at least for my work, didn't mesh well with low light hand held shots - a tripod was almost a necessity for the sharpness I wanted. My next venture was with TLRS - I had, in sequence, a Rolleiflex, Yashicamat 124, and Ricoh Diacord.
The Rolleiflex turned out needing some pretty expensive repairs and I wasn't convinced it would be worth it. The Yashicamat was excellent, especially after I replaced the viewing screen with a brighter one from Rick Oleson, but the less expensive Ricoh won out because of the unique focus mechanism. I replaced the viewing screen with a brighter one with a split image one like found in rangefinder cameras. It is usable handheld, although I still prefer a tripod.
Of course, the TLRs do require you to think of reversed images, which requires a small brain reset to get used to. I've never used a MF rangefinder camera so I won't comment on them. However, I grew up with rangefinders in 35mm and still prefer them over SLR/DSLRs except with long lenses, but I recognize that not everybody really likes rangefinders. I hope our comments help you narrow down your choice. Left-right reversed viewfinders are indeed a matter of getting used to (or put 'right' by using a prism finder).
What you, Jerome, haven't seen before the film was developed is how your kid and that piece of fruit was framed exactly. Both TLRs and rangefinders do not show the image as it is recorded on film. It shows an image as seen from close to the taking lens, but not through the taking lens. You can do close ups and macro, yes. But by no means as easily as with an SLR.
(It's like hiking across Yellowstone with one leg broken and the other one bruised badly. It takes a lot of will power and can indeed be done. But it's so much easier with two healthy legs.;-) ) SLRs make life a lot easier by letting you see the exact image that is coming home with you. That is why they were invented.From the pre-selection you made, Emily, get the Bronica (SQ). For years I have heard people parroting that with an SLR.wysiwyg (what you see is what you get). (I've always wanted to use that word in a sentence).
The very moment you needto see your subject you're blind 'cause the mirror is up. Did the child move? Did the bride blink? Did the flash actually fire? Did the old lady feeding the pigeons in the park just give you the finger?
You'll never know until the film is developed with an SLR (digital SLRs excepted of course). You'll know for sure with a TLR or rangefinder. Yes, macro is challenging, but there are work arounds if you need them.
If you don't like the right/left reversal thing with TLRs, replace the waist level finder with a prism. This solution works with all Mamiya TLRs, C3/2 through C330/220. Also works with some Rolleis (E-2 and later if I remember correctly). I once tried a Mamiya rangefinder as a wedding camera, great for posed shots, drove me nuts trying to do candids with it.
Although Mamiya 6/7 lenses are brutally sharp, any rangefinder is difficult to use with moving subjects. Mamiya TLR lenses, especially the later ones, are also very good, but remember they're all at least 15-20 years old, I'm not sure the exact year the Mamiya TLRs were discontinued. But, more importantly, they were made for a long time, so there are a lot of them available, just get the latest lenses you can afford. As mentioned previously, the best camera for a hyper anything-year-old is a digital SLR with a good zoom lens, but for me at least, the second best choice is a Mamiya TLR, with a prism. One last point, old Rolleis, like old Leicas, have a lot of collector appeal. This tends to drive the prices for user cameras artifically high.
Mamiyas, not so much. The prices have stayed pretty reasonable. Good hunting for the right camera for you, and remember, photographing any two-year-old with any camera is challenging.
So plan on shooting lots! The previous posts have covered the pros and cons of the various camera types well, but I suspect that, however helpful they tried to be, they will not in themselves enable you to make the right decision. The three types handle so differently that there is a risk of your making a choice you may later regret unless you can try all three and compare them. Is there really no way of handling examples? If you ask around or advertize locally you may even find someone who has a neglected camera they would be ready to sell and which you could try without obligation, though I acknowledge that few people except professionals used MF. The OP is in New Zealand where the suppply of cameras might not be so good.
If she buys the wrong camera it could be relatively difficult to sell it. Repairs would be even more problematic than here in Australia. My Rolleiflex GX has just had a trip to Germany. Having young children inspired me to take lots of photos.
I have used 35mm SLR and rangefinder, and 120 SLR (Rolleiflex SL66) and rangefinder (Mamiya 6). I enjoy looking at the world through a big square viewfinder, but I find myself printing rectangular most of the time anyway.
At the end of the day I found my best prints came from 35mm (SLR and rangefinder, all manual focus) because of the better depth of field and the general ease of use. Also, modern 400 speed films are fantastic, and it's great to be able to use f/1.4 for indoor shots. Most of my medium format rangefinder experience was with Koni-Omegas. These are heavry and quirky cameras but can deliver excellent results if they are in good condition and used properly. I have a number of 6X6 TLRs which I still use sometimes. Most of my medium format cameras now are SLRs.
They have fallen so much in price and are so much more versatile than other medium format cameras, I mostly use them when shooting 120/220 film. I agree that the Rolleiflex you are talking about would not be very practical.
The Bronica EC/ECTL models are old, very heavy and difficult to get repaired. A Mamiya 6 in good condition is certainly capable of good results but you will not get very close with it and extra lenses can be very expensive. In the 6X6 SLR format I have four Bronica SQ-As and an SQ-AM. The original SQ is even older and does not have all of the features. The later SQ-Ai offers TTL flash capability but has more complicated electronics. With an waist level finder the SQ-A will give you the same reversed image as a TLR with a waist level finder.
The difference is that you can get a number of different prism finders and that will let you see an unreversed image. With extension tubes you can get closer than with any rangefinder. Each lens has its own electronically controlled leaf shutter and synchs with flash at any speed. The 80/2.8 S and PS lenses are both excellent. A standard kit would be a 50/3.5, an 80/2.8 and a 150/3.5 S or f/4 PS. The PS lenses are the later ones. You can cover a lot of ground with these three lenses.
The camera has interchangeable backs so you can change film in mid roll by changing backs. An SQ-A which has not been used constantly by a professional photographer can be reliable and give good results. Be sure to get a Speed Grip if you get an SQ-A or any of the SQ cameras (except the SQ-AM, which has a built-in motor). It makes holding the camera and winding the film much more comfortable. There are many plain (no meter) prism finders around and they sell for very little. Most of these cameras were used indoors for event photography and with flash.
![Camera Camera](/uploads/1/2/5/4/125407721/978905149.jpg)
A meter prism just wasn't needed. Still, they are available if you want one. A couple of points:The moment the shutter is open is short. Do we miss what is happening when clicking the shutter of an SLR?
Did the child move and come to a sudden stop in 30 ms? How fast is that old lady in the park anyway? And from everything you see through your rangefinder, can you identify the event that occured during exactly those 30 ms?
I think not again.Parallax compensation does not exist, Jerome. You can have a moving frame line that shows where the image ends. But parallax is about perspective. You were not seeing that fruit through the viewing lens the way it was seen through the taking lens.
In the close up range the difference in position of both makes for two rather different images. In the macro range the viewing lens will not even be looking at the subject that fills the field of view of the taking lens. Thank you so much everyone for the many, well thought out responses! I wasn't sure what to expect from this forum but I really appreciate all the time and effort you have all taken to respond, thank you!
I do realise that if I want to capture my monkey at her most active and really don't want to miss a shot, then my digital and 35mm SLRs are the best tool for the job. I have both film and digital Canon EOS systems which both serve that purpose well. I don't expect a medium format camera/system to replace this function. I hope to be able to nab a shot of her in her quieter moments, and also expand my subject matter - sometimes it is nice to feel like I'm something other than just 'mum' if that makes sense. But certainly handholding is important to me and I'm starting to think that rules out the Bronica.
The shooting distance of the M6 is the one big concern to me as I am kind of drawn to the idea of 'macro' shooting (not true macro really, just closer focusing) which is certainly not an option with the M6 whereas I know the Rolleinars are an option for the Rollei. On the other hand, I can always get a macro lens for my 35mm if I really feel the urge, can't I. The previous poster is correct in saying that my living in NewZealand affects things. I live in a smallish town and anyway there is not a big film presence in this country that I can find.
I certainly am not able to try before I buy, as I will most likely be purchasing from overseas and I don't know any other film shooters here. I guess my biggest question is which focusing method will frustrate me less - the WLF or the RF. I have a Canon AE-1P and I find having to judge with my eyes alone whether focus is correct to be quite tricky although I do manage to get a fair amount of keepers on that camera, even the action shots.
The TLR kind of just looks 'fun' because it is so different. On the other hand I wonder if I would be more likely to carry the M6 along with me on a day trip. I'm kind of just thinking out loud here ha! I have rented a hasselblad, a 503cw more precisely; as I was trying to figure out if such camera would be for me, as it's quite an investment (in lenses mostly). Bottomline, I didn't like it outdoors (or street, anniversaries, indoors), although it's fine (and great) in the studio; with proper light, patience and (very) understanding subject.Yes I know this camera was used by Ansel at some point but.
I'm not Ansel, never will be (sigh.) Try to see if you can rent one before you buy, it's really different, you will either love or hate it. I enjoy the sole idea of having only one lens, it makes things so much simpler (and perhaps cheaper?), I don't have to either carry too much equipment or worry about which lens to use. I also found something amazing when using my Rolleiflex for street photography or anniversaries, people love it, and they always look very carefully when I swap a roll, just as if I was performing a magic trick. I think it wouldn't surprise them if a bunny was coming out of the box when I open it to change the roll.
And yet again that camera vibration thing pops up on PNet. When handholding, the tiny vibrations the camera itself may produce are nothing compared to the what your 'steady' hands make the whole thing go through. Many orders of magnitude worse.And even when used on a tripod, i.e. When your hands are no longer allowed to shake the camera, the vibrations that originate inside the camera itself are not enough to have an effect on the image.So forget about that. As far as weight and size of a 6x6 SLR is a concern, it must be noted that a TLR is not necessarily lighter or smaller. A Bronica SQ or a Hasselblad are very compact camera, about the same size as a Rolleiflex TLR.They do weigh a bit more, yes. But not kilos more, and unless your trying to reduce the weight of your pack dramatically, doing things like taking chocolate bars out of their wrappers to save a fraction of a gram, nothing to worry about.It's not an elephant vs mouse thing.You may or may not like how any type of camera handles.
That's something more depending on personal preferences than the type of camera itself.But for the part that is camera type dependent: the suggestion that MF SLRs like the Bronica SQ are only suited for indoor work, with a lot of patience, is nonsense. They are more ergonomical, faster and easier to use than a Rolleiflex (and most other) TLRs that need both your left and right hand to operate the thing in turn.But for ease of use, the rangefinder will be the best.
As a Mamiya user (Mamiya 6 and RZ), I can tell you about my biased thoughts. The Mamiya 6 system is irreplaceable.
Very fast, way easier to use and to carry. Ignoring, for simplicity's sake, that the result of the cumulation can be a reduction, that vibrations can cancel each other:They are cumulative indeed, David.
Like noise: a silent yet audible hum will still contribute to the sound pressure level when all you hear is a kilo of dynamite exploding 2 meters away without you being able to distinguish the hum in the sound you hear. It's indeed still there in the loud bang you hear.
But it would be silly to contribute the ensuing deafness to that low hum, would it not?Orders of magnitude, David.Remove that gigantic problem, and you're left with the tiny problem. When a camera is isolated from whatever in the outside world was moving it before, fixed on top of a sturdy tripod, the only vibrations left to worry about are the ones that are on 'this side' of the isolator. So it's not quite a matter of 'of course the vibrations produced inside etc. The tripod holds the camera steady!' The thing that matters then is the magnitude of forces creating those internal vibrations compared to the mass of the thing they have to move.
Simplified: will a mirror flipping up and coming to a sudden stop be enough to make the camera jump? The answer is that it will not. The energy released inside the camera that has to be dissipated is not enough to cause problems (except in a few rare instances perhaps).So it's not because the camera is on a tripod.
It's because there isn't enough energy to cause noticeable problems. Emily, don't overthink this. All cameras have their pros and cons. Pick one and learn to use it.
Any good quality camera will give you good results. It does not really make any difference if it is a RF, SLR or TLR. Find one that works for you and start taking pictures.
You will soon discover for yourself any limitations and how to work around them. I have a Rollieiflex 2.8E and a Mamiya 6 and have used both to take pictures of kids. They both work fine. I find that the Mamiya is best as a handheld camera and the Rollei is best on a tripod. You will find what works best for you.
The most important thing is to start taking pictures now. Your daughter is growing up and you don't want to regret missing the pictures you did not get. Whichever camera you will get, make sure it is fully functional - preferably recently serviced. MF cameras you are looking at are 20-70 years old and can frustrate a beginner with never ending list of malfunctions that you discover after you developed your film - this is my own experience from few years back.
Also remember that you will need a reliable hand held light meter, majority of older MF has none. Personally, I use the most a folding camera I got from a guy on ebay, he goes by name certo6. His cameras are serviced, ready for reliable use and not expensive. The cameras you have under consideration are very different and have their own pros and cons (which you should be aware of from a good photography book that describes these pros and cons) and only you can decide which is really best for you.
From what you describe, I think you might prefer an MF easy to hand hold and operate quickly to one with lots of potential for various photographic approaches (macro, long telephoto, etc.) other than everyday situations. If the camera is in very good shape when you buy it (I prefer spending a bit more on a well cared for and often near mint camera than a real bargain but which has been badly treated and ripe for additional problems) you shouldn't worry about certain fragilities of some cameras (Ex. The focus lever on the Minolta Autocord, the winding mechanism of the Mamiya 6, etc.) as if you are reasonably careful of your equipment it should last well. Even if you live far from a repair centre the time of turn around of some repair centres is as much related to their work schedule as to the time of transport.
Of course, some cameras, like the Hasselblad, are well built, but a friend who works with a pro repair clinic here sees a lot of them in for service, although mainly from pros who use their cameras intensely. I have no problems using rangefinder cameras and they do not limit my range of photography, probably as I do little macro work and even less long telephoto photography. They are rapid acting, silent, low vibration (no mirror flap) and precise enough for my needs. Among the Monolta Autocord, a Mamiya 6 RF camera and a Fuji 6x9 RF camera, I use mostly the Mamiya 6 as it is the most reactive and very silent, although for large prints the Fuji is my second most used camera (a bit more clunky, large and noisy compared to the 6 and really best on a tripod). While I have had to send the 6 in for repairs (mostly minor and not needing parts) a few times I am more or less confident of its serviceability.
Using also digital, it sometimes sits on the shelf for a month or two. Then, it is best to exercise the shutter every month or so at each shutter speed to assure continuance of operation. This is true for all cameras. Finally, while I haven't looked at prices for a few years now, the Autocord TLR (c1955-60 model) can be had for about 250-350$ in excellent to near mint condition, a Mamiya 6 with 75mm lens (c1990-95?) for about 1200-1400$ in near mint condition, while I believe a Rolleiflex recent f3.5 or f2.8 (older than the Mamiya, some very old) will probably cost you well above a $1000 unless you go for a simpler Rolleicord model.
The Bronica may be available at a price closer to the Autocord (or Yashicamat 124G which has a slightly less performing lens), but I do not know of the quality of the Zenzanon optics which may be very good. How the camera has been cared for is as important as a near mint or excellent cosmetic condition and you should carefully inspect the lens for defects, including interior dust, grease smearing on the diaphragm blades, element separation, fungus, haze and scratches. Just to clarify, can you see a blink (or head turn) in 30ms.yep you sure can.
I shot weddings and portraits for a living for nearly 40 years. Did I use TLRs? Did I also use SLRs? But I used SLRs on a tripod so I could look over the camera at my subject(s) to look for blinks etc. OP suggests she doesn't/won't use a tripod so this 'fix' is not an option for her. By the way, 30ms is approximate time mirror is up with some SLRs. But with Hassy, Mamiya, and many others, it's until you wind on to the next frame.
Which is a lot longer. We're all showing our biases, but the OP sounds like an intelligent lady so I'm sure she can sort what works for her. This thread has been an interesting read. Nice to get four+ pages in without a single curmudgeon showing up! Robert Bowring, you win favourite comment You're right, I have been overthinking it, mostly because it is a considerable monetary investment and as a stay at home mum, it takes me time and patience (and a bit of wheedling ) to save up the funds. But also I think because my gut is drawn to one thing and my brain is telling me all the reasons it doesn't make sense.
I kind of want something that I feel excited to learn my way around. As much as a camera as just a tool, I think the way you connect with your tool can change the way you photograph - that's one if the things I love about film, feeling more connected to what I'm creating. I'm like a cross between a philosopher and a gadget-head As much as everyone responding has their own biases, I actually really like reading everyone's biases. If someone says 'I like this because.' And their 'because' doesn't fit the way I work, then I have still learnt something useful ya know? Even if my conclusion is different to theirs. Really great thread, thanks everyone!
Never heard of a Bronica EC. Did you mean Bronica ETR? The ETR is a 645 format SLR rather than the 6x6 Bronica SQ. Smaller, lighter and less expensive so it might be a compromise between the size/weight of a TLR and the versatility of an SLR. But be sure to get a prism finder with it rather than waist level. Very tricky to shoot verticals with a waist level finder. The SLR is the most versatile of the cameras you list but as you can see from the replies, each has its merits and its fans.
I own two TLRs, a Yashicamat 124-G that's very good and also lightweight. Other is a Mamiya 330, which has interchangeable lenses and finders and various features but is also larger and heavier. Never tried a MF rangefinder but I have both a Canonet GIII QL17 and Leica M3 35mm rangefinders that are both great. Thomas K mentioned the folding cameras - a good alternative to the cameras you mentioned in the opening post.
They're lightweight, compact and very quiet. Some are more convenient than others, offering rangefinders. The lowest priced models have simple optical viewfinders, no rangefinder, and guess-focusing.
It's about like the differences between the high end Polaroid folding cameras of the 1960s-'70s, and the simpler P&S type plastic body Polaroids. Be wary of the very inexpensive folders listed on ebay. These are often sold by folks who don't know much about cameras and tend to regard only cosmetics. They may describe the camera as 'minty' but it may need servicing to be usable. The most common problems are bellows with light leaks, focus rings jammed by old dried grease and shutters that are sluggish or inoperable from gummy lubricants. I paid around $25 for an Agfa Isolette around 12 years ago. It was good cosmetically, as the seller said, but needed an overhaul.
I bought another for around $10 from another ebay vendor and it was completely inoperable and unrepairable. It was an oddball with a combination shutter/iris with blades made of some sort of fiber composite rather than metal. After several decades the fiber was brittle and turned to dust. Presumably it was made during the depths of Germany's economy when they turned to ersatz production using unskilled workers and whatever materials they could find cheaply. It's just a shelf decorator, although I might eventually convert it to pinhole use. I overhauled the better of the two Agfa Isolette folders myself several years ago and it's still working fine. But it was a very simple camera and not the most desirable if you'd prefer a built in rangefinder and conventionally placed shutter release.
The simplest Agfa Isolettes had viewfinders that were somewhat distorted, with focus rings that required estimating distances, and the shutter release on some, like mine, are an oddly located lever mounted toward the front of the camera near the lens. Fortunately I have long fingers and can operate the shutter release lever with my pinky finger - but it's an odd way to hold a camera.
I also have a Rowi rangefinder that fits in the accessory shoe, but the rangefinder is in feet, the lens is in meters, and I usually don't bother. I just guesstimate the distance and stop down for more DOF to make up the difference.
It's pretty much like using a slightly fancy Holga, Diana or similar toy camera, minus the soft focus lens with tons of vignetting. Even the simplest, cheapest folders tended to have very good lenses, compared with the plastic toy cameras. Thomas K mentioned (Jurgen Kreckels). His website has plenty of good information that can help in choosing a medium format 6x6 or larger folding camera. You might also check photo.net's classic cameras forum.
Lots of archived threads on folding cameras and recommendations from folks who own and use them. Emily, If you primarily use the camera handheld then a MF rangefinder is ideal. On a tripod these cameras are awful though so be warned. When shooting handheld at anything slower than 1/125th you are at greater risk of blur with an SLR though.
Of course shooting on a tripod with an SLR at any speed is quite nice from a compositional standpoint as its WYSIWYG notwithstanding the instant moment of exposure arguments as previously laid out. A mamiya 6 Rangefinder SLR is only going to give you 75 to 80 percent viewing when focused near infinity so be sure you understand your tolerance for this. I shot a Mamiya 7 for many years along with a Bronica Etrsi and they are completely different beasts. For tripod work the Bronica SLR ruled the day but was garbage handheld at just about any speed in my opinion. And in response the above post: Bronica SLR's: Utterly reliable in my experience Mamiya 7 RF: utterly unreliable in regards to the fragile focusing mechanism that frequently needed realigning by a professional (strictly a camera design issue: rangefinders are fragile beasts).
Quite a dilemma. The good news is that all of your three choices can produce great pictures. I don't have any of these, though I have similar cameras and here are my impressions, for what they're worth: Bronica S2 - similar to the EC. This is a heavy but compact camera that produces great pictures with its Nikkor lens. The one issue is the very loud shutter. If the EC has the same shutter it may be a mark against it if you intend to shoot in areas where it might disturb people.
The S2 has a slow synch speed too (1/30) - not sure if the EC improved on this. Mamiya C330 and Flexaret - TLRs that I use instead of a Rollei (that I would love to own). TLRs are fun to shoot with and produce great pictures.
The C330 is large and heavy, but the Rollei (like the Flexaret) will be fine for handholding. Parallax is a slight issue, but I don't find it to be a problem. Rangefinders - The Mamiya 6 is another camera that I would love to have if I had the cash. I have many other rangefinders including a 645 Fuji and the aforementioned Rapid Omega (great camera) and find them fun to use but perhaps not so satisfying as being able to see through a lens.
By the way, if you do pick up a 35mm RF to try it out, I would look into one that works in full manual (no battery) like a Konica or Olympus RC/SP. The Electro can have electrical problems and will not work without them working properly.
If I were you I would probably go with the Rollei with the EC a close second. Best of luck to you. Emily, welcome to photo.net.
There's a lot of good advice here, and you don't need more, but here goes: the condition of the camera is more important than which camera you choose. This is important to you if you live a long way from whoever sells your camera. Try to buy from a reputable dealer, who can give you a guarantee that it's in top optical and mechanical condition. The Rolleiflex will probably be due for a clean/lube/adjust.
If the lenses aren't perfectly matched up for focus, you will find your images are soft at wider apertures. Overhauls by the top technicians are expensive, and would be more than the cost of the camera- something to consider. Also, the New Standard will have uncoated lenses.
If you're going with a Rollei, I'd look for something newer. If you're shooting a fast-moving kid, I'd go with the Mamiya 6, provided the rangefinder is in good adjustment. Rangefinders in general are well suited to street, documentary, and people photography. You can track subjects easily and focus rapidly, and Mamiya rangefinder glass has an excellent reputation. (Also, I guess you know there are two cameras called Mamiya 6, separated by about 50 years. The latter-day version is still pretty expensive.) Let us know what you end up doing.
Hang up some pictures in your photo.net portfolio so we can see what you're up to. Emily, In terms of budget and weight I would select a TLR as my first 6x6 camera.
The are light weight, compact, inexpensive, and simple mechanically. Both the Yashica and Rollieflex have good lenses. If you are just shooting the kids the TLR will be just fine. If you need wide angle and telephoto capabilities it might be worth going with the SLR. I hiked the Grand Canyon carrying a Bronica SQ- Ai with lenses.
Not doing that again! The 6x6 SLRs are versatile, but are heavier than a TLR and harder to hold steady below 1/30. If you are photographing anything that moves, like a 2 year old, I suggest using a strobe and taking advantage of the leaf shutter on the TLR. The Mamiya 6 is a nice camera. I have the Mamiya 7 and have used it for a while. The Mamiya and SLRs are five times more expensive than the Rollei you mentioned. Is it worth it?
To me the camera is another gadget to take pictures with. I used a Yashica TLR for many years and was happy with the images. I even photographed weddings using the Yashica. You will need to be more selective photographing with the 6x6 since you only get 12 exposures. The large 6x6 negative or chrome is fantastic compared the the 35mm image. The one thing the TLR lacked was wide and telephoto attachments.
This was because I never bought them. Best of luck deciding. Ricky you talk a lot of sense.
I've most recently been looking at the sq-Ai and I have to admit to some gear lust - there is something about it that draws me and the photos I've seen have a gorgeous quality. But you may be correct that an inexpensive TLR may be a good entry point and I could move to an SLR later if I wanted. What you mention about the hiking is one of my concerns - that the weight and bulk will lead to it staying home over more portable options in my arsenal. I've also been eying up the Minolta Autocord as a TLR option. Emily, The Bronica got less use as kids came along. The gear that goes with hiking and outing with infants and toddlers eventually replaced the camera gear. When they were three years old II started to carry one camera with the 80mm.
The rest stated in the car or at home. The TLR was eventually replaced by a 35mm because the kids were doing too many funny things that I couldn't t change film fast enough.
The equipment choice depends on what you need to do. I have some great 6x6 shots of the kids before they learned to walk and run. Once they got into the running is fun mode, I switched over to using the 35mm. The TLR 6x6 still got used for soccer, softball and basketball as the second camera. The important thing is to capture the moments whatever equipment you use.
Image quality is great, but sometimes the moment captured is once in a lifetime when it is your kid. My kids are always claiming the old photos must be of their sibling doing something silly. You have gotten many good ideas, and I hesitate to throw another hat in the ring but there are several different things to know about MF: first, there are systems cameras.
These will do amazing things, almost anything you want, except they are not fast, and they are not light. Most are SLRs of some kind, but with the WLF they can be somewhat reasonable in size. There are a few boat anchors among these as well. The best (IMHO) is the Hassy V, which I owned and never really bonded with, but still like a lot and yearn for sometimes. The ergonomics on it aren't ideal for street shooting, but its a great camera. There are others, but watch the weight add up. Then there are MF cameras that are more like enlarged 35mm cameras, but work to 120 film.
The Mamiya 6 and 7, Bessa, Plaubel, Pentax 6x7, and a few others are in this camp. They are very good camera, most are rangefinders, and in the case of the Mamiya, the lenses are lovely and fine. I really like RF for 35mm work, but somehow for the more contemplative MF work, not so much. Each their own. The TLRs are pretty much unique to MF work.
The issue of parallax is not important, they don't focus super close without attachments (not a big deal), but they are lovely in the hand. The ergonomics on the Rollei, for example, are worked out over 50 years, and very clever.
I find them very good for hand-held work, and they are a fine travel camera. They are quiet, the viewing on the GG is what makes them special as well - as you think about the composition of the picture in a way that is different than other cameras.
I wouldn't start with anything else, but there are many different voices out there who come from different places on this. But the TLR has the right combination of lightness, ergonomics, contemplative shooting, and street fast that is just special. One other thing - on lenses. There was a test years ago of a Mamiya 6 or 7 lens, a Hassy V (Zeiss) and a 1950s Rollei TLR. While the Mamiya was the best, the Hassy very good, the big surprise was the quality of the TLR - it held up just fine in today's world.
Of course condition is important on these. Some folks like the Yashica 'cause of the changing lenses, but the weight is significantly more (although its cheaper), and that takes away from the portability. Hope this helps - Geoff.
Released in 1989, the Mamiya 6 is a medium format rangefinder camera system. The Mamiya 6 system includes the 50mm F4, 75mm F3.5, and 150mm F4.5 lenses. The Mamiya 6 is the most compact and portable of all the modern Mamiya rangefinder cameras. The retractable lens mount is really the stand out feature of this camera. It has reduced the bulk of the camera and puts it on a more even footing with the Fuji 645 cameras in terms of size.
While there aren’t very many modern 6×6 rangefinders, the Mamiya 6 is still the king. The Mamiya 6 and 7 are legendary cameras and with simple camera bodies and high-quality lenses.
Check the find it used section for links to find the best price for this particular camera. Brand Mamiya model 6 focus type rangefinder lens mount Mamiya 6 color black start of production 1989 original retail price 180,000 original retail price currency 円 JPY Japanese Yen film or digital Film film format 120 shots per roll 120 6x6 (12 exp.), 220 6x6 (24 exp.) camera type 120 Medium Format Rangefinder available lenses 50mm F4, 75mm F3.5, 150mm F4.5 special features three sharp and fantastic lenses. The Mamiya 6 is the most compact and portable of all the Mamiya rangefinder camera. The retractable lens mount is really the stand out feature of this camera. It has reduce the bulk of the camera and puts it on a more even footing with the Fuji 645 cameras in terms of size. While there aren't very many modern 6x6 rangefinders, the Mamiya 6 is still the king.
The Mamiya 6 and 7 are legendary cameras and with simple camera bodies and high quality lenses. Maximum focus distance ∞ Infinity dimensions 155x109x69mm weight 890g iso range 25 to 1600 flash External battery 2x 1.5V SR44/LR44/MS 76 hot shoe Yes bulb mode Yes shutter type Leaf Shutter shutter speed B, 4 sec. To 1/500 sec.
Exposure compensation +/-2 EV (1/3 EV Step) exposure mode control (P)Programmed AE, (A)Aperture Priority AE viewfinder magnification 0.58x viewfinder coverage 83% rangefinder coupled Yes rangefinder specs base length 60cm(effective base length 34.8).